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I have to continue. Trump finally did what should've been done along time ago: Declare ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist group. Under federal law of a domestic terror group, such a group breaks laws "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population" or to "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." But it may be too late for that. Seeing what happened with the semi nearly running down protesters, it's clear it's no longer a protest and has since then gone beyond peaceful. Something needs to be done. No more dispersing crowds. I want arrests. I want them off the streets. We've heard their voice and the only concern they have is protecting their own asses and not the people that have to deal with the protesters. I don't know what else to say anymore.
The tens-of-thousands of domestic terrorists - including many privileged, white liberals who've been schooled in resentment studies - hardly need an excuse for their ostensible "social justice" criminality. We are seeing the ferocity of campus identity politics trickle down and spill onto the streets. It was inevitable that the faux-victimhood "cancel culture" of higher learning was going to become more mainstream, organised and violent - and directed against the people.
Bottom line: the Left just wants to watch the world burn.
This is generally the prime time tyrants use in order to seize power. When the nation is in chaos and looking for order, they justify extreme measures for peace. Thankfully, Trump is showing more leadership than these Dems. Marshal law may be enforced if things don't improve and that may be what they want here. You could say it's another step in achieving absolute power.
I want to add one more thing. Even if the officer's actions were justified, no one cares about the facts. People seriously believe they are being targeted and this instance among others justifies their fears and anger. The left has taught this to them from the beginning and told them "wait and see, it will happen" and when it does, here we are. People hear what they want to hear and people believe what they chose to believe. Just what do you think people believe after seeing that video? A negative picture has been painted about police be it fair or not. Legal victories aren't good enough to heal wounds from a community that believes in the left's narrative that they're victims of an evil that to this day, have yet to do anything about. I mean, look around the nation. Does it look like they believe in the progress they made with their own police?
As Mark said: "The death of George Floyd was a particular, specific failure of policing; the burning of the city [now cities] is a total general failure of policing."
And you've noted: "There was no reason to keep him [Floyd] restrained for as long as he did and in the manner that he did."
We live in an instantaneously responsive "reality TV" world, where every person carries a videocam, and millions of people become witnesses to events when footage is beamed around the globe - whether it's a policeman using potentially-lethal force on a detained suspect, or anarchists razing cities to the ground. The former has been used as a pretext for the latter. There's no logic to anarchy.
Not only that, but lack of understanding that when you have a narrative that paints the police as oppressive and that the system is rigged, "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply. I can understand why they don't trust the system. If you are in one of these positions of power, there is a fear that they can use their influence to get out of trouble. When it comes to the police however it's about protecting it's reputation and they still don't know how to do it. Just as we're about to find out with "Mad Max" nearly running over protesters in his semi, he goes to jail for his actions while four officers just get a pink slip and sent on their way.
"There's no logic to anarchy."
Oh, yes there is. And the anarchists know what it is. If the rest of us are clueless about it, then we are 'Too stupid to survive.'
You've taken the sentence out of context.
There's no logic to anarchy as far as Brian's reasoning goes. A murder committed by a policeman should not be generalised to all policemen, but ANTIFA has used the incident as a pretext for their campaign of anarchy.
PS. See multiple comments below on Antifa on May 30th: I'm well aware of the organisation's "training, purpose & capability" - and goals (to quite Andy Ngo).
There are always going to be bad cops just as there will be terrorists. There is no way the system can know who is bad until they do something bad. What shouldn't happen is the system intentionally taking their sweet ass time while cities around America, including mine, have to live in fear of uncontrolled rage that is directed at the citizens. The police aren't a bunch of mercenaries that follow their own rules. They are directed by POLITICIANS, ACTIVISTS, AND LAWMAKERS. There is no excuse for this. There should be no day five or six or seven of protests if they were serious about this. They knew how volatile this issue is and yet here we are being lectured on protocol and procedure. Name one time where the protesters or rioters cared about such things? How long did it take for the other instances for them to arrest the officers involved in those killings before cities were burning? What in god's name have these "leaders" been doing all this time? They tout "leadership" when businesses are lost from a system that they control and they assured us was going to work for them. Where are the cries for these people to resign? The police aren't MS-13. They aren't a gang that killed a rival gang member and now retribution has to be done. You think that "justice" will be done when more officers are killed? They want them all dead. They want no cops.
I think it took from Monday until Fox News Sunday for the word "riot" was applied to the "peaceful demonstration", "the peaceful protest" to be applied to the activities in many cities, like looting, pillaging and burning in response to the police brutality incident in Minneapolis. Major media corrupts our language.
"Major media corrupts our language."
Yes. And that corrupts our thought. As many of the comments here show (to be fair, such attitudes are a lot worse outside this forum),
This Minneapolis mess highlights glaring inconsistencies in the talk and rant over Police shootings in America. Please let me know if there is an error in the following, but here are the apparent facts almost nobody ever mentions:
- the majority of those killed by cops are Whites
- Black on Black murder is a far greater threat to their community
- the total number of Police shootings are quite low in terms of the great American population
- Stats apparently show that White cops are actually less likely to draw a gun on a Black suspect than his non-White colleagues
- Nobody, and I mean nobody of note, ever analyses the numbers properly, that is to say culls out the cases where force was clearly justified and then studies the residue
The Media, and opportunistic politicians + activist demagogues, always ignore the above and push the racial narrative at all costs. Cui bono? Certainly not the greater public interest.
Ann Coulter?
Today is my one year anniversary for being locked down in quarantine. I'd like to tell everyone it gets easier in time but it doesn't.
George Floyd who? His death has been eclipsed by the widespread riots and attempted destruction of our civilization. It really doesn't matter how this case is adjudicated now. The lines have been drawn. So sad.
Milton Friedman was fond of quoting something said by a French member of the Chamber of Deputies, circa 1790; that more evil has been done by poor logicians than by evil people intentionally doing evil. Of course, that was said before the world saw the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler, but certainly a lot of evil has, in fact, come from poor logicians working with distorted facts.
This country launched an ill-advised military adventure in Southeast Asia due to a misinformed perception of an incident in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964. An explosion of a boiler on the Battleship Maine led to the Spanish-American War, Just to name two consequences of operating on false premises. I could cite more, but instead will cut to the chase. I live in Seattle, and yesterday watched the consequences of poor decision making by our elected officials. Downtown Seattle, was trashed to the tune of millions of dollars worth of property damage because the Mayor, the Police Chief, the Governor, didn't learn anything from what happened in Minneapolis, NYC, Los Angeles, D.C.....
All of which stems from the false idea that four Minneapolis police officers killed a citizen there. But, the evidence made available to date--the autopsy report, the limited charge of one of the officers of something like 'depraved indifference'--doesn't support the narrative repeated, ad nauseum, by even conservative media types (Fox News). What little evidence the Hennepin County DA has deemed allowable to our tender emotions, is that George Floyd died of a heart attack during a lawful arrest. With the honorable exceptions of Tucker Carlson and Andrew McCarthy, I haven't seen any indication anyone on the various news programs even is interested in that fact.
This country seriously needs an attitude adjustment. The first step is for people of good will to grow up and face reality (which, as Thomas Sowell is famous for pointing out, is not optional). Police brutality is verrrrry low on the list of problems in this country. White-police-on-black-citizen-violence is not much of a problem in the USA. White policeman are about ten times more likely to be victimized by black criminals, than the other way around. Pretending otherwise, is the origin of all this rioting.
The problem is that justice does not come quickly enough, which is the mentality of every lynch mob ever.
I am still at a loss to understand how an incident in a city with a Democratic mayor, Democratic congressperson, Democratic DA, Nothing but Democrats in every major state office and the most leftist state in the union (heck, they were the only state to vote for Mondale) can be laid at the feet of Trump and the GOP? It reminds me of the aftermath of The Satanic Verses: Rushdie was a British subject with an Indian passport so of course a mob in (IIRC) Pakistan attacked the American embassy. As you pointed out to those people reality was optional. Interesting that the only black leader who ever caught on to the fact that leftist "friends" of blacks were in no way friends of blacks was Malcolm X, and that was 55 years ago without seeing the mountain of evidence since that has confirmed his belief.
The evidence made available to date includes the video footage. Tucker Carlson was highly critical of the excessive use of force when he discussed the issue - including police brutality - with Senator Cruz.
First of all, Kate, I am referring to Tucker Carlson's saying, several times, Where is the medical report, and What are the facts. He was quite insistent that the entire story hadn't gotten out. About which he was correct.
Don't you find it odd that a week after Mr. Floyd's death the DA has not released the full autopsy and tox screen?
Second, how many videos have you seen? I believe I have seen five. In the first one, when the original two cops on the scene question Mr. Floyd, and take him out of his car he appears to be falling down drunk (did you note the comment from the ME in the DA's report about 'intoxicants'?).
There is another video in which a policeman is putting Mr. Floyd into the back seat, driver's side, of a police video. After he's succeeded at that, he runs around the back of said vehicle, apparently because Floyd immediately exited the door on the passenger side. Suggesting he then ended up on the street. At this point the four policemen had had several minutes contact with the man and they probably noticed his intoxicated state, and concluded they were dealing with a belligerent drunk who was resisting arrest.
Does any of this evidence give you pause to think?
No. It's the kind of thing that security guards in hospital emergency departments deal with every Friday and Saturday night.
By the way, as far as the contribution of drugs is concerned, Floyd was lucid and talking - "I can't breathe" etc - in his final moments. This was not someone collapsed unconscious in the gutter with an obstructed airway in respiratory arrest before police arrived.
And multiple bystanders urged Chauvin to stop.
Thank you Mark for reminding me of why I love the music of Stan Rogers so much. I miss my Nova Scotia cousins, but I'll be burying my mother's ashes in a small cemetery near Yarmouth as soon as this covid business subsides.
Be well! You're a very important man.
It makes me wonder if the feet dragging around filing charges against the Minneapolis police officer was done on purpose, knowing the delay would stir up the masses into the chaos we have witnessed. Like Mark said, if that had been Joe Citizen with his knee on Flynn's neck he would have been arrested and jailed the same day. If the FBI can investigate Michael Flynn for doing nothing wrong maybe they can investigate the Minneapolis police chief, Hennipen County attorney, Minnesota attorney general and Minnesota governor for dereliction of duty.
Of course the slow roll is intentional. To make the narrative a self fulfilling prophesy or rather reality, they have to do this. When you have the Hennipen County saying the evidence shows the actions were justified, just what have we learned in all of this? What I learned is that if you're an enemy of the establishment or the left, the law seems swift and unforgiving as in the case for Flynn. Someone has had their boot on the neck of Lady Liberty for decades and no one cares if she can't breathe.
Hi Mark,
I'm coming on the "Comment" page a little late but want to thank you for your tribute to Stan Rogers - perhaps introducing him to some of your club members. (Folk music isn't on everyone's hit list.) His music is poetic, honest, heartfelt, and melodic; his voice a deep baritone - a truly great singer/songwriter. There are too many favorites to list but I hope some readers will explore his wide-ranging songs. One of his lesser known songs is one of my favorites: The Lock Keeper - who sings "I wouldn't trade your life for one hour of home." He helps us remember what's important.
John
For years I've listened to the smug, self-satisfied "Minnesota Nice" virtue signaling. Now we see the Whited Sepulchre exposed. We also get to listen to those who think they are not affected by the chaos and destruction proclaim that Target and AutoZone and the big chains have insurance, so they aren't hurt -- showing they have no concern for the workers, and are ignorant of how insurance works, and their knowledge of economics is on a par with those they've elected -- nil, that is. They wouldn't be able to understand Bastiat's Broken Window Fallacy, obviously. The Trudeau-understudy Mayor certainly doesn't -- after all, his house isn't being burned, and public property can always be rebuilt with someone else's money -- I mean, taxpayers' money. It isn't HIS police station or public housing that was destroyed. Pontius Pilate didn't do as much hand-washing as Minneapolis politicians, and not just to avoid the Virus That Must Not Be Named, either.
We've seen this before -- mayors and chiefs of police who let the mob riot to "get it out of their system" -- their property isn't threatened, is it?
Exactly right, and there's another angle to this failure to protect citizens and their property—fear of bad PR. The mayors and police chiefs are worried (with reason) that if they confront the violent rioters, they will be characterized in the media as being modern-day George Wallaces and Sheriff Clarks. There will be comparisons to 1965 Alabama, and the MSM will have video cuts between today and the Pettus Bridge police riot half a century ago in a different world. This fear, a fear so strong that it compels elected officials and law enforcement leaders to allow their cities to be razed, is in large part the result of a corrupt media and justice/legal system. It is a hostage situation writ large. A big concern I have is that judges and juries that will be hearing cases following all this mayhem will be frightened into making the "correct" decisions to placate the mob and elite pundits.
Minnesota Nice insists on electing some of the least nice people on the planet. Jessie Ventura, a guy who sued a fellow Seal's widow, was Governor. Al Franken, a guy who had no hesitation crudely mocking women, was a Senator. They think more highly of themselves than they ought. Minnesota Self Righteousness is more like it, typified by highly revered Garrison Keillor, a man with his own skeletons in the closet.
I am always on the alert for police abuse of honest citizens but at heart I am a law and order guy. It is generally a bad idea to argue with police and if the problem is serious, you should remain silent. At all times, though, you should comply with a policeman's orders and sort it out later.
I have looked at the video available and I am not particularly shocked by anything. There is a segment missing between the initial arrest and when Officer Chauvin has his knee on Floyd's neck. At some point it took at least three officers to place Floyd on the ground, so I have to assume there was some level of resisting arrest. George Floyd looked like a burly guy that could pose a real threat to officers. Also at some point Floyd was going to have to be placed in a police car and he apparently needed to be restrained until that happened. While some look at the 8 minutes of restraint and call it reckless, I see the length of time as moving beyond a violent response by the officer to to something more routine. The final two minutes after Floyd went limp are concerning but there was no trigger point as far as I can see.
With the "protests" at Chauvin's and the DA's houses, the world changed. To me, a protest is people in the streets, singin' songs and a carryin' signs. Mostly saying hooray for our side. When the parade starts chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon," also in MN, then you have moved into the threat category and free speech is out the window. The DA should have recused himself and sent the matter to another county.
Officer Chauvin is being prosecuted for his race. This has become a trend. Appease Blacks when they become outraged. Their record of victims they champion is pretty poor, the Gentle Giant, the aspiring rocket scientist, etc. have all been violent thugs. Perhaps it is time to just tell the protesters that Officer Chauvin will just be treated like the Somalian born officer that murdered Aussie Justine Damond (also in MN.) How would they react, riot?
When to comes to rioting you have to go with the Texas Rangers, one riot, one Ranger. The riot act should be read and immediately employ non-lethal tear gas and shotguns with bean bag rounds to show you are serious.
The problem then comes when you compare these rioters with Hong Kong protesters. The line between fighting for freedom and looting for fun and profit is pretty fuzzy. When Molotov cocktails start getting tossed, it's hard to tell the difference.
"Officer Chauvin is being prosecuted for his race. This has become a trend."
That's what it looks like, and we've seen it before. Certainly that was the case with George Zimmerman in Florida, and very likely the case in Georgia shooting recently. Facts are very inconvenient things sometimes.
BTW, I should offer some kudos to Tucker Carlson, because last night, he was the only one I saw on Fox News who was even asking about the autopsy report. He kept asking, What are the facts. Something that didn't occur to the legal beagle Laura Ingraham.
Patrick, I'm with you and Walt regarding patience 99.9% of the time. However, there are instances in our everything-is-on-video culture where that is a luxury we can't afford. If a veteran white cop, who should expect he's being filmed, doesn't see any potential problem keeping a handcuffed black male in a chokehold position for eight minutes, I'm ok with arresting him. Many of us recall watching the Rodney King video with the same attitude. I didn't need any further information then, and I don't need any now. The current riots are political and Floyd's death a mere pretext to the scum who exploit it. But I don't need further details to be glad Chauvin is off the street.
Walt, your last paragraph absolutely nails it. The last time riots like this happened in Britain, back in 2011, they were triggered by the shooting of a black Londoner (variously described as a gangster, a drug dealer, or 'with a criminal record') called Mark Duggan. Police shootings don't happen much over here on the whole, since our police are generally unarmed, but when they do, it's nasty.
Anyway, the riots that followed can be characterised, I think, as 'Justice for Mark Duggan! Let's steal some cool stuff!' Black or white - didn't really matter: televisions, booze and high-end trainers [sneakers] aren't racist at all. As in the USA, riots and looting spread to many other cities; apparently Twitter was used to broadcast where the next 'riot' would take place. However, as ever, we don't manage things nearly as efficiently as you do in the States: while there was some arson and quite a bit of property damage, no one thought of burning down police stations, as far as I know (though several double-decker buses were set on fire, and a warehouse was torched). And the police were out in force everywhere - after about three or four days, they started arresting people as the riots died down.
My most vivid memory of that period is seeing a photo of a parade of shops that had been looted by the mob. Every shop in that row - among others, an off-licence (selling alcohol), an electrical supplies shop, a sportswear place, and so on - had been completely emptied by looters, save one: a bookshop.
"Officer Chauvin is being prosecuted for his race."
Officer Chauvin is being prosecuted for his actions, which were clearly caught on camera. (The fatal shooting of Justine Damond by Mohamed Noor was not: both officers - who later claimed they were momentarily "spooked" by a sound, and drew their weapons - had their body cameras off when Noor killed her. And there were no other witnesses to the murder.)
Is the recent NYC subway incident - with video showing a woman being forcefully restrained by multiple officers for "not wearing her mask properly" - just "routine" policing, too?
"The current riots are political and Floyd's death a mere pretext to the scum who exploit it. But I don't need further details to be glad Chauvin is off the street."
Indeed.
Michael, re the organised Antifa thugs who are capitalising on the Floyd killing under the cover of media reports of "white nationalism", see Andy Ngo on Twitter:
"Media, politicians, public—all of us—have underestimated the training, purpose & capability of left-wing extremists. Every part of the rioting has a purpose. Fires destroy economy. Riots can overwhelm police & even military. All of it leads to a destabilized state if maintained."
And the Democrat-Media Complex facilitated it. The radical left wants to destroy America by any and all means possible.
Yes, I agree with your assessment, Seth. I'm glad he's off the streets. But as Walt says, there's some missing segment of video. There's something else bothering me that few ever bring up. Tucker touched on one aspect of police interaction with the public: how many actions by police in the line of duty when engaging with potential perps not racially motivated is ever reported and how many black officers have killed white perps in the course of enforcing the law. Is there a reliable place to discover that statistic? I'm just curious the next time "racist pig" is thrown out there. Or, " a good cop is a dead cop."
There's something else that is happening across the country and it seems it hits the national news at least a few times a month, or often doesn't for whatever reasons; that is, officers in the line of duty getting fatally shot. We had two officers fatally shot by fugitives in our county and a neighboring one, within a month, the latter a few months from retirement over near Holloman AF Base, a couple years ago. The first, an escaped murdered fugitive, from Connecticut, I think. The young police officer stopped the car for driving in a stolen vehicle and he was fatally shot when he approached the vehicle. The officer was in his second or third year of duty.
There are stories like this all across the news. I'm not excusing the method used by Chauvin and his fellow officers at the scene, just saying, are the other incidents causing riots and mayhem? Another thing that I'm not excusing is the mental stress this extended forced house arrest has put on people black and white, and in between. That's not to say it isn't real.
The mayor has shown a lack of leadership in how he handled the protests which quickly escalated to riots. Was this guy sleeping under a rock during the Freddie Gray and Michael Brown incidents? Is it possible he was in college getting multiple college degrees that helped to catapult him into an office he was not prepared for? If you ask me his actions represent a textbook case for how not to handle an incendiary situation. Doubt it will make it into any college handbooks on leadership.
Correction: escaped murderer fugitive
Doyenne, I don';t know how you can wear your mask improperly enough to get arrested but I do know counterfeiting is a serious crime. We haven't seen the body cam footage for the three most involved officers yet which will make all the difference. I will await your reaction when Floyd's ChiCom-19 test comes in positive, thus proving it was not only not murder but chalked up to the Chinese.
Touché. It's true that Floyd repeatedly pleading, "I can't breathe!", may have been due to Covid-19 acute respiratory distress, and not the 7 minute knee to the neck (before he lost consciousness - officer's knee still on neck). If due to the former, his death would (also) be attributed to "underlying conditions" per the social media experts.
I don't understand the defence of excessive use of potentially-lethal force by police towards a suspect who has been subdued and hand-cuffed, whether it's on the basis of an alleged fake $20 note or an improperly worn mask.
It's a tricky one, if I may say so, W. All the evidence and testimony has yet to be presented. That's how the system works: first evidence, then judgement. It is useful, in rejecting those who jump to judgement (and aren't there many of those?) to suggest that, when the evidence is in, it may justify a different judgement, One the other hand, one needs not to jump to that alternative judgement until the evidence has all been examined.
It is always useful to consider that the truth is more complex than the situation might seem at first glance. Some policemen are pigs. Most criminals are pigs. Sometimes things go wrong by accident, sometimes they go wrong on purpose, but sometimes they go wrong out of pig-headedness, and sometimes out of folly.
I think the law has to handle excesses by policemen very carefully, in any case. You cannot ask somebody to deal unhesitatingly with potentially dangerous people all the time and not expect the occasional excess; conversely, good judgement ought to be encouraged among policemen. And sometimes they possess it anyway, and sometimes not so much.
And of course the policeman in question might have been guilty of arresting while white. We all know that attracts stiffer penalties in these racist times. I hope that Constable Chauvin (Is he a constable? I get these things wrong.) will receive a fair hearing. I should have liked Mr Floyd likewise to have had a fair hearing. It is unlikely to have culminated in a sentence of death even if his crime had extended beyond forgery, but a hell of a lot remains to be proved before the constable in question can be said to have discharged an extra-judicial death sentence.
None of this means that I think that the subsequent riots should be treated with gentle consideration. In my opinion, rioters are criminals, no more and no less. All of them. In my opinion, legal doctrine about collective purpose needs urgently to be revised so that rioters can be treated as criminals. Pretending that their activities enjoy legitimacy should fall under that doctrine, and the people who so pretend should be declared criminal also. But that is a matter of opinion.
S, I am not condoning Officer Chauvin's actions but mainly the rush to judgement and especially the appearance that he was charged with murder so quickly to appease the mob. As usual, appeasement didn't work. It took 8 months of investigation before Minneapolis Police Officer Mohammed Noor, who shot Justine Damond, was charged with a crime. Noor was convicted of third-degree murder and manslaughter for shooting Damond point blank without warning. This is the same charge lodged against Officer Chauvin.
We have some riots for fun and profit going on in Portland about 70 miles north of me. My favorite story so far is from Breitbart reporter John Binder where he analyzes footage of looting the Louis Vuitton store and made the effort to list the $4000 purses being carried off by their catalog descriptions (with pictures.) I have not heard anything specifically, but nearby there is a Nike Store at the company HQ and I bet it was hard hit by those honoring the memory of George Floyd.
Sounds like they're burning the bookshops in Minneapolis.
You're right on all scores, W. I hadn't for a moment supposed that you were yourself jumping to judgement - to do so would be to under-estimate your intelligence in the most objectionable way. My intention was to embroider on your remarks, which I understood as going to what I have characterised as the trickiness of the conversation. We certainly agree that justice must run its course. As to rioters, I'm more than just with you. I know little of Mr Floyd, but anybody who argues that his memory is done honour by looting private property or striking its elderly female owner or any criminal activity of that sort is not an idiot: such a person is a psychotic criminal, and so too are the people who excuse and incite such criminality. Nothing tricky about that, anyway.
Later we can come to the spectacle of policemen kneeling before such criminals - 'though to be sure that may not be what actually happened, and only appeared to because of the cutting together of footage by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which is a good deal less unsympathetic towards to rioters that I am.
I agree with Kate. but there are always two sides to an event, and Mr. Chauvin will sort of get his chance to tell his side in court. Thas said, the situation looks pretty bad for the officer based upon the video. Don't know if its true or not but it has been reported that he has a very bad disciplinary record.
Of course, the Democrat Mayor, Police Chief, Other Police Brass, etc don't have any responsibility to police the city's police force for bad actor policeman. Its most definitely not the completely incompetent and deeply corrupt management of every city and state office and function by our psychopath socialist politicians (both dems and repubs but at the City and State level generally dems) that is to blame. No, its you Walt and Kate, and Mark, and Brian, and all the rest of the people who go to work every day and don't have time to "protest."
Shocking scenes. The bifurcation of society of which Mark has warned - "law" without order - is a precondition for the radical left's "revolution". ANTIFA thugs - bussed in, to turn protests into riots - have used the murder of George Floyd to that end.
"Anarcho-tyranny: where the state is more interested in controlling citizens so that they do not oppose the managerial class (tyranny) rather than controlling real criminals (causing anarchy)."
PS. The police killing of George Floyd in broad daylight - as summed up by Mark - is even more disturbing, given the autopsy report: due to "underlying conditions", George Floyd apparently died *with* a knee on his neck - not *from* a knee on his neck (in keeping with the recent re-defining of cause-of-death). Unbelievable. At least charges have now been laid.
An "interesting" characterization of Mr. Floyd's totally unjustifiable demise to say the least. The law enforcement agencies with which I am familiar have a saying that sums up the issue: "when resistance ends excessive force begins". I see no resistance that would justify what will likely be characterized by the Floyd family lawyers as an unjustifiable use of deadly force.
Yes, "interesting" would be one way to characterise the autopsy report: George Floyd would've died anyway, according to the logic of the "underlying conditions" experts.
Mark's assessment of the murder - and related issues - was razor-sharp.
Great points Kate. I'm especially concerned about the Antifa aspect. Both Gov. Waltz and the MSM keep bleating about the "white nationalist" interlopers who have driven otherwise peaceful protestors into rioting. So it will be reported that it's the Right who vandalized CNN offices, destroyed local businesses and torched police stations. And half, or more, of my country will believe it.
As Mark says, America is in transition. The new America is certainly going to be far worse than the old one - I first accepted that in 2008. But with truly Orwellian pronouncements coming from elected leaders, social media and the idiot press, the abyss looks deeper every day. The Left, with huge help from the Chicoms, has achieved their goal of making every day a crisis. No sane country can go on this way.
Underlying conditions or not, the guy had backup, why not put him in the car? There was no reason to keep him restrained for as long as he did and in the manner that he did. We've been through this before. It's no mystery what the reaction would be afterwards.
The "bifurcation of society of which Mark has warned" reflects a twice-forked society, K. Okay, okay, I'm out of here...!
I'll come back to your "bad flu" trolling another time, S. Maybe.
That's my opinion, K. Conveniently, it accords with medical definitions of influenza, but I do admit that the media and the extreme measures taken to manage this strain have influenced my choice of qualifier. I'd hoped to be able to express my opinion in this wonderful forum of interesting and generally intelligent opinions. I went to have blood drawn for testing this morning and needed to bite my tongue while some troubled lady in the waiting room, there for the same purpose, held forth to all gathered there on the awfulness of pervasive racism, the awfulness of the American health system and the wonders of placing seats in the waiting room a metre and a half apart, however happily stopping short of breaking into the "International". (I'm not in the habit of engaging in conversation with idiots, so I have no idea what experience she has of racism, the American health system or epidemics, but that is beside the point.) The point is that I find it painful to realise that I come across as equally provocative as that lady, and moreover to people whom I respect. However, the only way I can curb that is evidently to keep my opinions to myself, the better not to tread on any toes. Your advice in that matter would be invaluable to me.
I'm not aware of any influenza where healthcare workers needed Biosafety Level 4 laboratory precautions to avoid ending up in ICU or the morgue (as in Italy, before standards were introduced - notwithstanding China depleting the world's supplies).
The PPE was something China worked out early, oddly enough. Or maybe it was part of the staged hypochondria hoax.
The problem was a failure by Western countries to get serious - early - as Asian countries did in order to avert disease, death and damage to their economies.
Mea culpa, K. I hadn't realised that it has become politically correct to trivialise all preceding influenza epidemics and to treat this one as something completely different, instead of acknowledging that it is one of the more lethal strains, if not the most lethal. Of course I know nothing of healthcare in Italy, let alone as much as you, and I certainly don't know what biosafety precautions were needed during, say, the Spanish influenza epidemic to protect healthcare workers from the dire fates which you describe, so while that is the basis for judging whether the disease if a 'flu I admit to having no valid basis for comparison. Since I certainly can't stop thinking of it as influenza until my tiny mind comes to grips with any substantive difference, I shall keep my opinions in the matter to myself in future, the better not to provoke my betters. Always interested to read your expert opinions as to the nature of the problem, despite not being able to master the approved terminology.
No need, S - you should feel free to refer to it as hypochondria. In fact, most conservatives do (selectively) - ie. China unleashed a deadly virus that was a hoax/ globalist conspiracy after it crossed borders. You're actually far more consistent in asserting it was nothing much to be concerned about in the first place. Walt & Co are of the "let it rip" school (which might be a problem with something as lethal as SARS-1 and as contagious as SARS-2). All opinions welcome... but expect contrary ones!
An alternative view is that (1) SARS and similar viruses represent a serious ongoing security threat given the gain-of-function "research" being undertaken in biosafety labs, and that (2) Covid was (avoidably) politicised and weaponised in Western countries in the wake of a monumental public health failure in January, February and March. (As a related aside - and in terms of Italy and beyond - there was a big deal made about supplies of masks/ protective equipment etc a few months back.) There's not much in the way of analysis of what the West got so wrong and Asian countries - which didn't lockdown - got right. But it's all a bit broken record to go on about "unsexy" measures such as early testing and quarantine (and even things like home monitoring and oxygen therapy).
In any event, this virus seems to be losing its lethality in real life, as Singapore scientists had observed in the lab - so fewer deaths despite plenty of cases (at least for now): it's what viruses *should* do (as opposed to killing the host). Also, T cell immunity (overlapping with other coronaviruses) is thought to play a big part in limiting its impact.
PS. Don't take the "trolling" dig too seriously. With Walt, I try to give as good as I get (and vice versa). See you on another thread!
Coolest, K. Still, I shalln't be referring to it as hypochondria, because that's something different from influenza, 'though it is topical. The sister of my son's beloved (whom you were kind to during a cruise some time ago) is a medical professional in one of the American states. She says that the hospital in which she works has had more cases of the "worried well" than all other ailments together since the beginning of the year, and that her hospital is broadly representative. But that is frivolous chat, really. Words have meanings. That's serious.
My position has never been that this lurgy is nothing much to be concerned about in the first place: It is a serious 'flu, and I don't trivialise those for a moment. The siblings whom one of my parents did not lose to bombing were lost to 'flu, I have lost an unborn child to 'flu, and over the years one strain or another has knocked off more acquaintances than I have fingers to count. My objection to economic suicide is probably no different from yours or Walt Trimmer's. My objection to hysterical decision-making, which is that it results in appallingly poor policy, is something I'd like to think I share with many people, including you. My objection to politicians being allowed to get away with this costly and possibly mischievous folly might be all mine. And I don't like the ease with which folk around me are frightened into acquiescence, be it to climate hysteria, coronavirus hysteria, racist-homophobe-whatever hysteria or in fact whatever bogeyman the media can cook up next. I don't like to be treated like a sheep and I don't like to think that I am among them. Our society has become a gathering of shrieking maidens standing on stools (I choose the furniture advisedly) in terror of a mouse. I am of course able to distinguish between the threat posed by a mouse and that posed by this particular influenza, or indeed any influenza. Most of us can do that without further comment.
But I've said all I have to say on the subject and, saving the right to vent a little more about the consequences of the idiotic policy, and imbecilic efforts subsequently to justify it, to which the Chinese disease gave rise, I can happily leave it alone. Frankly I need the change, and the riots in America afford an excellent opportunity to drop talk of the 'flu. I try to avoid the affliction, anyway: 'flu just isn't my thing. So, yeah, we'll chat about something different in a future thread. Should be fun.
I thought you were going to go the Northwest Passage route:
Westward from the Davis Strait 'tis there 'twas said to lie
The sea route to the Orient for which so many died
Seeking gold and glory, leaving weathered, broken bones
And a long-forgotten lonely cairn of stones
Stan Rogers was my favorite Canadian. When he died I had to find a new favorite -- Paul Gross.
PS. Men With Brooms is on Prime Video. It is filled with inside jokes that I don't understand but Canadians seem to think are hilarious.
PPS. OK, OK! Paul Gross is my second favorite Canadian.
Don't forget Due South. One of its most interesting episodes included Gordon Pinsent and the late great Leslie Nielsen. Pinsent is one of the legion of Canadian actors who have played the role of US president. For Kathy, check out Colossus the Forbin Project (quite cloes to the book, btw).
And also don't forget Slings and Arrows!
Watching Fox last night, it looked like multiple Democrat conventions were being held outdoors at the same time.
They sure could of used some Brit Wanker Coppers in Minn. At least they might have yelled at the participants for (some) not wearing masks and making a mess. Glad our Brian from Minneapolis is OK. I hit the rack at 9:00 p.m. last night (Pacific time), so I will have to check the DVR later to see what finally transpired outside the White House. The last thing I saw was an officer that had been hit in the head by something being helped by other officers. It really appears there is not much of a security defense system at the White House in case of a mob threat, such weakness will probably inspire more lunacy and breaches.
That's when I hit the sack, too, Al Man. It's getting too much to watch. At the end of the week, you want to watch some real good detective show like Bosch, and watch the really bad guys get their comeuppance, not the poor guy who walks out of a store with a funny looking twenty. After a cool trillion was pumped into the economy to save us all from dying due to a dastardly bug, what money isn't funny money anymore?
My wife agrees with you Fran, she doesn't watch the riots with me, too negative. I watch in the bedroom. She is binge-watching Frazier. We also like Bosch, I read all the Bosch books starting when they first came out. Our Supercuts opened back up on Wednesday, I got in on Thursday for my first haircut in three months. My wife's hair lady is going to take care of her next Thursday so she is really looking forward to that after all this time.
Mark is famous for the line, 'Too stupid to survive.' Now consider this from Kyle Hooten in yesterday's Wall Street Journal:
"Although Gov. Tim Walz has deployed some 500 members of the state's National Guard to patrol Twin Cities streets, the police haven't done much to protect businesses or bystanders. As the Third Precinct was under attack, a convoy of police vehicles was caught on video driving away. Early Thursday, I watched three looters carrying armfuls of goods jump into a getaway car. Dozens of police officers who were blocking access to an adjacent street stood by and let them go."
Surprise, surprise! The police don't want to put themselves in jeopardy of being treated like their colleague Officer Chauvin, who is in jail, charged with murder for doing HIS job. What's the biblical line, 'You reap what you sow.'? Hope the Minneapoliseans appreciate the good work of the people they elected to serve them.
Doing his job?!
As Mark said, if police end up killing someone over an alleged $20 counterfeit bill, they're doing it wrong.
:,,, if police end up killing someone ,,,,"
It has not been proven that they did kill someone. You are committing the hoary logical fallacy of post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I.e., I first heard the rooster crowing, then saw the sun rise, therefore the rooster called forth that sun. Just because you saw a video of a policeman's knee on the throat of an arrestee, and that person later died, does not mean that the policeman's actions 'caused' his death. Or, as the statisticians are at pains to point out, correlation is not causation.
The Hennepin County DA is well aware of this fallacy, as he had stated, before Chauvin's arrest, that there was some evidence of a murder and also some evidence against that interpretation. Also, it is clear that there was a great deal of political pressure put on him to arrest Chauvin.
Dear Mark,
In case you are looking for a new cruise venue, the St. Roch is on display under cover at the Vancouver Maritime Museum. The last time I took my boys there you could go on board and explore the whole stout little vessel, imagining yourself crammed in focs'le with the other men, all trying to stay warm by the pot belly stove. Must have smelled great! On deck you will see a pitched tent which was used by hitchhiking Inuit (accompanied by their dogs) who preferred to stay outside despite the weather.
It's a lovely little museum with a stunning view. Not to be missed on your next trip to Vancouver. Really beats the law courts!
Dear Mark,
I woke up this morning to see that the Supreme Court has issued a 5 to 4 ruling against the California church that is petitioning to allow their usual number of members to congregate in their sanctuary. The majority opinion is that the church may have no more than 100 worshipers in their sanctuary. I wonder if the Court will also opine on the number of rioters that are allowed to coalesce into a mob?
Yes, and, no surprise, it was John Roberts joining the 4 liberals to overturn the First Amendment. Kavanaugh wrote the blistering dissent, asking why you can walk down the aisle of a grocery store, but not a church pew.
Anyone think the Pentecostals will riot in the streets over this outrage?
Mark,
Thank you for your brilliant insight as always but especially thank you for playing your end music from Stan Rogers. He was always one of my favorites and I got to hear him a few times in person the last time only a few weeks before he died. I have an autographed album of his in there amongst my most treasured pieces of memorabilia along with an autograph of Nat King Cole taped to his unforgettable album that I found in a friend's stash.
Keep fighting the good fight. You inspire all of us who were at the wrong end of injudicious lawsuits.
Mark replies:
Thank you, John. Stan Rogers had a lovely distinctive baritone - a great loss.
Mark:
Brilliant comparison of the strictly enforced Covid-19 rules for peaceful, responsible, law abiding citizens and the lack of rules or even enforced laws for "legitimate protesters" that moonlight as despicable thugs, rioters, arsonists and looters whenever police and firefighter social distancing rules are in effect.
Several news outlets spread this unexpected news:
"Medical examiner: No evidence George Floyd died of strangulation" (Updated: May 29, 2020 / 04:53 PM CDT)
"MINNESOTA, Minn. (WTVO) — "The Hennepin County Medical Examiner says a preliminary autopsy found no evidence that George Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia after former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck for more than 8 minutes. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death."
Fake news, cover up or factual autopsy results?
At the very least, the police failed to recognize their helpless, handcuffed suspect was in serious medical distress and Chauvin's knee on his neck was not exactly an approved therapy for a man struggling to breathe..
Preliminary autopsies don't count. It was irresponsible for the ME's office to release that.
I think you summed that up very well. Even if the "underlying health conditions" (my, aren't we using that terminology a lot, these days?) was something other than asphyxiation and Derek Chauvin possibly did not intentionally contribute to George Floyd's death, he certainly made no effort to help him stay alive.
Which is why Chauvin has been charged with manslaughter and third degree murder. A first-degree charge requires proof of premeditation - and while it's obvious Chauvin should never have been a police officer, it's equally obvious that he didn't target George Floyd and set out to kill him. Of course, Floyd's family have said they won't be satisfied with anything less than first-degree murder charge - which is not their call. But then, they want vengeance, not justice. In fact, the rioters' rallying cry ought to be "no vengeance, no peace" - and for many of them, vengeance consists of opportunistic acts of arson, vandalism and - most of all - looting.
What! You're concerned the rioters will be confused by the facts?
"...Derek Chauvin possibly did not intentionally contribute to George Floyd's death, he certainly made no effort to help him stay alive."
I can just hear the DA using that argument in his summation. But wouldn't that come a little short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt?
"...and while it's obvious Chauvin should never have been a police officer...."
Even that is not obvious.It's a rush to judgment (or a leapfrogging to conclusion) based on a possibly deceptive video. Chauvin was responding to a citizen complaint of a counterfeit bill being passed. That's a crime, and the policemen were withing their responsibility to arrest the man. Further, he resisted arrest.
I'm guessing that the policemen were 'going by the book', as Susan Rice might put it (three times). I.e., doing what they were trained to do when subduing an uncooperative suspect. That's a legitimate defense to a charge of murder. It's even a legitimate challenge to being fired. They might well end up back on the force, or with hefty settlements from the city.
The Eric Garner incident seems to come closest - a choke hold gone bad - although in Chauvin's case, he ought to have recognized that he should not have been putting pressure on Floyd's neck for that length of time. But since I am not in law enforcement - and in my few interactions with a member of the constabulary I have always been scrupulously polite - I am not in a position to make expert commentary on methods of enforcement.
It does not appear that Floyd resisted arrest. There was no reason for him to be on the ground with the full force of the officer's weight on his neck. He was handcuffed and not fighting. Whatever the cause of death turns out to be, it seems the officer's actions led to the man's death. Of course, best to wait for all the facts to come out, and then for a jury to make the ultimate determination.
Well said, Tom - and you've reiterated Mark's point with respect to the officer being charged (vs convicted).
The footage of a hand-cuffed person being "restrained" in this manner - full body weight on the NECK - is extremely disturbing.
"...full body weight on the NECK..."
What evidence can you produce for this claim (or any claim to any percentage of body weight)?
Well, she was responding to a comment I made that said that. If it is not exactly correct, we will find out when more information is provided. The disturbing video does not look good for the officer, who will have his day in court. That said, I am pro-police and I despise the demonization of cops, who have a very difficult job, and who, for years now, have had to worry about being falsely accused of racism, and being found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Kneeling on the neck - specifically - exerts a huge degree of force in a highly vulnerable part of the body. It is actually recommended as a way of incapacitating someone (in self-defence) - including fatally.
I'm sure the police officer was aware of that.
His left knee was on his neck, his right presumably on his shoulder, and he was fully upright with only his toes on the concrete. His hips were not bent which meant that his full weight was on his neck and shoulder. It's a perfect setup to slowly asphyxiate someone. Under normal metabolic circumstances with no respiratory effort, the CO2 level rises 5 points per minute. With increased metabolic rate and the inability to compensate, the CO2 would still probably rise 5 points per minute which means that in 8 minutes, his carbon dioxide level was twice what it should have been and easily high enough for him to lose consciousness and stop breathing. Also high enough to cause a heart attack.
Maybe, but there is room, in the light of the video-recording, for a reasonably-minded jury to conclude that proof beyond reasonable doubt does exist. Since I shan't be on that jury, it won't be my decision.
Watching an absolute failure from this press conference while rioters are setting up barricades on the street and setting them a blaze. Walz told us to go easy on our boy-mayor. Then, get this, they didn't have the man power to handle this and didn't anticipate the number of people who would destroy my city. Of course not because they downsized the police to appease the people who are now causing this chaos. They then tout their "leadership" which is a joke. This is more of the same talk that we've witnessed before. The only "plan" they seem to get down are the speeches they give.
These are the experts who tell us that they deserve to rule us.
Brian,
Glad to hear you are all right.
I'm over in St. Paul. If the city wasn't burning around him, Sissy Frey's speeches would be hilarious. He's literally having a breakdown. (The coinage is Kevin Michael Grace's -- besides Mr. Steyn the only other Canadian I follow).
Our governor's press conferences are like a football coach explaining why his team continues to lose.
Minnesota's Director of Public Safety continues to insinuate that white supremacists are to blame for the looting and burning though he admits he has no proof.
Gun confiscators use to laugh at the idea that there would come a day when you would call the police and there would be no answer and that's why private citizens needed guns. Well, in Minnesota, today's that day (and yesterday and the day before).
The techniques to quell riots and insurrections are well known. They are just impalpable to modern Westerners. They involve bullets and bayonets. We can barely muster the courage to whisper "riot".
Randy
PS Twitter is much more useful in monitoring riots in your neighborhood than the local media.
On the "white supremacy" angle are these Twitter insights...
@RyanGirdusky: "A perfect example to show how much the media hates you and thinks you're stupid is by gaslighting that the riots last night were caused by white supremacists."
@esaagar: "Timeline of events so far: Dems cheered on riots and looting until they realized how bad those things actually are and now they are desperate to blame phantom Russians and White Nationalists so they don't have to own the responsibility for the chaos they allowed."
These rioters don't care about black lives mattering. If they did, why did they wait for Floyd to die to say something about it? Why didn't they go to their Democratic leadership and demand the system to be fair and just? If "Black Lives Matter" why do they burn down the businesses of black men? It's not just brick and mortar Jacob, it's their dream that has been told it doesn't matter. It's never been about protecting black people. It's been about expressing your hatred for cops. Hate may discriminate but rage is blind. They didn't care who's life was ruined in their pursuit for justice for Floyd. Do you think they'd understand and have empathy if they all did the same thing and were wearing white robes? If they were White Nationalists, why downplay the carnage in front of the world and say it's not a riot?
Tuberculosis, which carried off Eleanor Porden, still takes a lot more people annually than Wuhan's virus is likely to (although, without plausible figures from China, we can't be entirely sure). Two of the three Brontë sisters, John Keats and Maria Bicknell. wife of the painter John Constable, all succumbed to the disease, as did countless others. In opera, Violetta and Mimì are both victims. When an ancestor of mine died (of old age) in Edinburgh in 1838, a quarter of the names on the same page of the burial records had "consumption" as the cause of death.
My maternal grandfather, ironically, probably survived the Great War through having previously survived TB; none of the combatant armies wanted former consumptives. A brother of his and his father, however, both died of the disease, as had his grandmother. I am told that there was something of an epidemic of tuberculosis in Britain after WWII. My mother's cousin and her husband-to-be both contracted it and lived through it, he after previously surviving everything the Germans could throw at him as a member of the Royal Tank Regiment and then the SAS.
Just about every action the Attlee government took helped to tank the British economy for decades to come. Imagine if some genius had suggested a "lockdown," until tuberculosis went away.
So much for the "curfew". People are still in the streets. National Guard is now backing away and are letting the rioters have their way. Now cities run by liberals are burning as well. Where does it end?
"Now cities run by liberals are burning as well."
I can't think of any cities run by conservatives that have ever burned. At least in the last 40 years.
And I'm sick of the "systematic racism" line. How can they still be racist after being governed by Democrats? I thought they promised that they'd work out the relations? Now they're pretending they have no control of the departments when they don't have a problem enforcing not arresting illegals and arresting those who wish to open up their businesses. PURE BS!
What's the difference between the drug cartels in Mexico and the rioters in American cities? The cartel members don't ransack and burn down the places where they operate. Rioters destroy their own communities and then they think everything will be good once they get it out of their system? "They're doing the wrong thing for the right reason," said one passerby to the FOX reporter. What's that mean exactly? Is that the distillation of "the ends justify the means"? Well, they'll get a close up look at the "ends" when the smoke clears. They're killing their own future. Trashing where they live and have to shop for essentials; they have been completely manipulated but they've nobody to blame but themselves. They've let themselves be used as pawns for their own demise and they'll take everyone else down with them.
Brian, I feel very sorry that you are living the MN riots rather than reading about it. Please keep us posted.
It will all be rebuilt with taxpayer money and to progressives' specifications.
Leftists have been talking about the underlying causes of racism and poverty for years, refusing to recognize that leftism is itself the underlying cause. During the roughly 50 years between the end of WWI and the implementation of the various "Great" Society programs in the mid-1960's, an increasing percentage of Afro-American households reached middle-class status; and - while admittedly starting from a lower base - black American household income rose faster than white households'. It took about 25 years - from roughly 1965 to 1990 - for family stability, especially among low-income black Americans, to be strangled in a social safety net of income credits and subsidies that made marriage optional and fathers irrelevant. The situation is made worse by public school systems that push students - again, Afro-American boys in particular - along from one grade to the next, until they graduate - or more likely, drop out - functionally illiterate and lacking in even a basic knowledge of math and science. Throw in a popular culture that encourages coarseness in language, dress and behavior and this is what you get - idle, resentful, angry young men always on the lookout for an excuse to engage in acts of violence, destruction and theft.
There is more than just buildings and livelihoods that were destroyed. What about the trust you had in your fellow citizens? They say "Black Lives Matter" but have no problem destroying a black person's business. This is all the culmination of everything these radical politicians have created. They promised this would never happen under their watch yet when it does they act as if they had no control over who gets hired. Then they say that the rioters were organized. Why don't they ask Ellison. He has a copy of their ANTIFA handbook. Then the slow roll process to get the officer that is involved into custody. I wonder if this was all intentional. Not the killing part but the delay that they knew would result in wide spread chaos. Then during the late hours they have a press conference with governor Walz telling everyone not to pick on his son Jacob Frey. They tout leadership yet say they weren't prepared. I'm not sure if I can go back to work in Hastings. I live with my parents since they needed me. My dad works at the same place as I do, we have one car, and my mom stays at home with my three little birds so if something were to happen I'd be devastated.
You can't legislate trust into a community when you lose it. It's no secret they never trusted cops but now how can we trust them? "The ends justify the means" is what they're saying and "Eye 4 an Eye" is now their motto and not the Golden Rule. In their eyes, Floyd's family will never get justice from the system unless they destroy and pillage their city till they get what they want. Nothing ever changes after all the other riots and I don't see how things will be different this time around even with a conviction. It will just happen again unless the police are instructed to only allowed to scold blacks and not engage in anything they do.
Thanks. I don't know if people will realize that the Dems created this hate and did nothing to stop it. In a way, they are just as guilty as those cops.
Yes, that's what I think, too, Brian. It'll happen again. I'm afraid it's part of their plan. Until the black community wakes up to the fact that they are being used as a means to the end, it will keep happening. Take a look at this quote from George Soros: "I'm going to bring down the United States by funding black hate groups. We'll put them into a mental trap and make them black white people. The black community is the easiest to manipulate." George Soros (interview with Germany's BILD 2014) This is going around the internet. Now it makes perfect sense who is the puppet master of Don Lemmon and Chris Cuomo is you happen to see that clip that Tucker showed on TCT earlier in the week. Don asks something about who is responsible, (I'll have to go back and check the precise words) and Chris Cuomo answers, "White people." These two guys are pure puppets for George Soros. I always wondered how a network with lousy ratings can still be on air. Duh!
I have birds, too. They're real characters, aren't they?
What's the difference between post-colonial Africa and the rioters in American cities, F.? Nothing. They all ransack and burn down the places where they operate, destroy their own communities and then think everything will be good once they get it out of their system, as you most aptly put it. Watch this space: somebody will be burnt soon, as the boss-man has predicted. I do not understand humanity's retrograde impulse, 'though I cannot see reason to doubt it. I am appalled by the general approach of "authorities" to the riots, but heaven knows that one wouldn't want them to be fighting fires with gasoline. I'm in "don't understand, don't know" territory. Again.
All I can say is that I hope that businesses will flee from the affected areas and that the citizens there will enjoy the slums to which they have consigned themselves, always pitying the poor sorry souls who locked themselves in and hid under their beds as the riots were ignited. No, there is one other thing. These are riots, not protesters, and whoever calls the participants protesters abets (or indeed encourages) rioters. Protests are legal, orderly, and respectful of property and passers-by. Rioters are criminals: thieves, vandals, and dangerous to all and sundry. It's not a difficult distinction to draw.
You're always so right on the money, S.! Can I meet you in Las Vegas when it opens up again? Only kidding, our spouses would kill us both.
You're the kindest of people, F. It would be my privilege to meet your other half and introduce you to mine. But here's the truth: it is you who are on the money. I just chime in. I should be more alarmed to have come across somebody with whom I agree so much, but, cussed soul that I am, I'm enjoying every moment. Wish I could say the same for the burning cities "run" by Democrats. I get no peace from reflecting that they are hardening the position of their opponents. What good can possibly come out of this?
We're not really gambling types anyway, S. I'm probably escaping the sad outside world by binge watching Bosch trying to defeat the mob kingpin in Vegas. The criminal underworld is operating everywhere, I guess, but it gets glamorized on tv and the viewer gets hooked. Deception, greed and lechery are everywhere, but some in politics do their dirty deeds in the daylight, or behind media desks and under the glare of camera lights. Much less glamorous people are on the take now overrunning the city streets, with anarchy finally giving us a visual. They all want bits and pieces of the leavings of a broken society. Who will want to live in the US major cities anymore? Yikes! My husband doesn't even want to leave home and our little hometown anymore. Can't say I blame him. I still wouldn't mind hopping on the next flight to Italy tonight. Now how did that get stuck in my head?
"Everybody is Kung Flu Fighting.,....."
Well said on all scores, F. Italy, yeah: I wonder what hotel prices are doing there? I'm a fool for linguine con vongole.
I never made it to Sienna, and never made it to Sicilia, S.S.! With you on the vongole!!
Really enjoy your comments and insight.
My apologies Mark for not congratulating you on another fine show. I'm on edge and I'm angry as to what has happened and all I can do is hope and pray that they don't burn down my home. I can't keep running away from liberal lunacy because eventually it keeps up with you. More choppers are flying overhead now. Is this the new normal for me?
As I suspected, there was a good reason why the policeman with his knee on the man's neck was not quickly charged with murder. The coroner concluded that Floyd was not asphyxiated:
" The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any
potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death. "
Also, Floyd has complained of not being able to breathe before he went to the ground.
Very similar to the death of Eric Garner in 2014. Under newly elected Mayor Bill De Blasio, police attempted to arrest Garner in Staten Island for selling "loosies" (black market cigarettes). When he resisted, an officer put him in a choke hold from behind. His cries of "I can't breathe" became a slogan for the Black Lives Matter movement. Garner was dangerously obese, and suffered from "underlying conditions", as we say today. His ability to cry that he couldn't breathe was proof that he could. But that doesn't change the fact that he died as a result of his arrest, same as George Floyd. Both were alive, if not well, at the time of their arrests; neither survived them.
We are stuck in a loop of police violence, real and imagined, against black men; errors and lies in the reporting of that violence; anarchy in the streets in response to the police violence and the lies; minority neighborhoods in ruins; investment capital in those neighborhoods long gone and hard to find. Without escape from that loop, we can't discuss, let alone solve, other issues that plague young black man--overwhelmingly other young black men. Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, among too many others, have become household names--for all the wrong reasons. The name of Hadiya Pendleton, a beautiful young girl struck dead in 2013 by a stray bullet in a Chicago park is not--for all the wrong reasons. When Colin Kaepernick and others took to sitting or kneeling during the playing of the national anthem before games, I didn't condemn them for protesting--but for protesting the wrong thing.
He wasn't quickly charged because an investigation needed to take place. He was arrested immediately because those who witnessed it didn't arrest him which meant that someone who didn't witness it would have to do that. In order to do that, there needed to be a proper investigation. The wheels of justice weren't turning fast enough for the mob, but they were turning.
THIS!
"We are stuck in a loop of police violence, real and imagined, against black men; errors and lies in the reporting of that violence; anarchy in the streets in response to the police violence and the lies; minority neighborhoods in ruins; investment capital in those neighborhoods long gone and hard to find. Without escape from that loop, we can't discuss, let alone solve, other issues that plague young black man--overwhelmingly other young black men. Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, among too many others, have become household names--for all the wrong reasons. The name of Hadiya Pendleton, a beautiful young girl struck dead in 2013 by a stray bullet in a Chicago park is not--for all the wrong reasons. When Colin Kaepernick and others took to sitting or kneeling during the playing of the national anthem before games, I didn't condemn them for protesting--but for protesting the wrong thing."
"We are stuck in a loop of police violence, real and imagined, against black men..."
Simply factually wrong. A fantasy. Police are far more likely to be assaulted by young black men than the other way around. And young black men are far more likely to be killed by other young black men than by police. Something on the order of a hundred times more likely.
The background music of American life has to change. We are not living in Archie Bunker's America.Allowing significant numbers of Americans to believe, unchallenged with facts,fantasies of racial discrimination running rampant, is doing a serious disservice to to those people.
"Also, Floyd complained of not being able to breathe before he went to the ground."
Why is it that he "went to the ground?"
Another great show, I particularly enjoyed the poem and the history of the St Roch, a story that I was unfamiliar with. To anyone interested in history today, May 29, is Oak Apple Day aka Restoration Day, Royal Oak Day, Oak and Nettle Day etc. It commemorates the restoration of the monarchy on May 29 1660 and was observed as a public holiday in Britain until it was officially abandoned in the 1850s. People would wear oak leaves or oak 'apples', some kind of plant gall I think, and give thanks to God that "after their manifold and grievous sufferings", the king had been restored to them. Not sure if anyone still marks Oak Apple Day but have a good one anyway :)
There may be no greater argument for the 2nd Amendment than recent Minneapolis events: Property owners needing to protect their assets from hoodlum mobs, with the Police in hiding.
Hear! Hear!
The Korean shopkeepers in LA during the Rodney King Loot, Shoot, and scoot I and II were left to their own devices to protect their shops. We won't get into any controversy of bigotry toward Asians but the Koreans own "devices" were rifles on the rooftops. As Robert Heinlein so succinctly stated... "an armed society is a polite society." The Left prefers to let the issue die down when embers are finally cold and there is nothing left the destroy.
Someone on line made a great point: The gun grabbers always mock the idea of t2a being a bulwark against government tyranny by laughing at the idea that armed citizens stood any chance against the government, but last night a ragtag half arsed mob was able to take over a police station in a major city with ease.
I begin to surmise who will be the first to be set afire by rioters.
Princeton professor Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor wrote this in the New York Times: "If you cannot attain justice by engaging the system, then you must seek other means of changing it. That's not a wish; it's a premonition." So rioters are correct to riot.
He doesn't mean that in the abstract, of course. Taylor would be outraged if someone burnt down a Planned Parenthood abortion clinic for dismembering babies and selling the parts for profit.
Ivy League - donchajusluvvit?
He is correct. The question is: Is there Justice? Right now, the mob is obscuring that question.
But of course His Excellency (as the UN presenter called Trudeau yesterday) brought up the American incident in his morning press conference infocommercial today. So predictable that he would lecture us on racism despite his Blackface appearances and the fact that this has nothing to do with Canada.
But would he ever criticize China for the widespread beatings and expulsions from lodgings of black citizens that have been happening lately as foreigners are blamed for the virus? Don't hold your breath!
Thank you, Mark, for diverting my attention from the twin atrocities of Covid and George Floyd's murder with the tale of the intrepid men aboard the St. Roch. I tried to do so as well on Facebook this morning, by linking to the story that Joe Biden may have passed gas on his latest live stream (literally passed gas, not metaphorically spewed hot air, which wold not be news). I spent the rest of the morning getting my behind chewed off by friends and family for not taking the state of the world seriously enough. Finally, I had had enough, and told them all to sod off. If they don't see the humor in a fart, they're too far gone for my helping. To learn the story of the St. Roch restored my faith in our species. Maybe faith, valor, and spine skip a generation. Or six. We can hope.
I read today that the boy-mayor of Minneapolis' contribution to protecting his constituents is to pass out facemasks to the rioters.
I am a J.D. a retired litigator in the civil rights area, among others. The Heart of Atlanta Hotel case does not apply to FB, Twitter, etc., because as you correctly point out conservatives are not a protected class under civil rights law. Protected classes generally are groups with definable, unchangeable characteristics, like race. Political viewpoint is not that kind of class. There is a case dating from the 1980s in Indiana, I think, that ruled it was not a violation of civil rights for an incoming state government administration to fire political appointees because they were in the other party.
Changing topics, I think it important to remember the name of Jasmine Damond, whom you allude to in you well-deserved excoriation of all concerned in the George Floyd catastrophe. She called 911 to report that she hear a woman being assaulted outside her apartment. When the police drove up, she ran toward them barefoot and in her pajamas to give them more information, and the officer in the passenger side pulled his gun, shot through the driver's side window, and killed her. This happened about 6 miles from the 3rd Precinct station in Minneapolis that just burned.
Ms. Damon, about to be married, was not a suspect, had not been stopped by the police, and was, of course, unarmed. That officer, however properly got due process. He was indicted 8 months later, tried, convicted and sentenced last July to 12.5 years in prison. No lynch mobs, no rioting. The officer was black and the victim was white.
My boy-mayor doesn't deserve a position. He betrayed his obligation to protect the communities from harm by letting them be looted and burned down as well as to allow whites to be attacked on site that don't join in the riots. The pharmacy that I get medicine at four blocks away was just burned down last night among other places that were there all my known life. I'm worried that there aren't enough black reps that are looking out for even a white guy like me. I'm told to comply and to allow them to do whatever and if I do anything to protect myself the state will throw the book at me to appease the mob. I feel alone because no one is speaking out in my "community" of those who are liberal.
Wasn't she from Oz? And wasn't the policeman a recent immigrant who was able pass the exams and issued a badge and a weapon?
Yes to both. Wikipedia has more details.
I don't think the main argument is that the social platforms are violating anyone's civil rights, but if they are going to act as de facto publishers, they need to follow the rules of publishers which makes them responsible for any libels that get published on their sites. There's no way they can police it all, so they need to go back to policing none of it. In for a penny, in for a pound.
I agree. I was responding to Mark's Mailbag on this topic. You are right, if Twitter is in for a penny on the President, they are stuck with billions of dollars in litigation for not policing every stupid tweet. This, of course is not economically viable, so Twitter would evaporate. And we can learn to live without it.
So far, at least, I have managed not to learn to live with it.
When I was in college during the 1972 elections, I worked as a student intern with the state Republican Party chairman's office. After the intra-party turmoil of the Democrats in 1968, the national Democrat Party in 1972 had taken a giant lurch to the left. Before then, there was no reason to expect that Democrats would be less Christian than Republicans, but the adoption of Roe v. Wade as a national cause celebre, prioritizing sexual autonomy over the Christian doctrine of the worth of each human soul, demonstrated that the Democrats had become unmoored from the religious roots of large parts of its normal constituency, including blue collar workers and African Americans. Forty eight years later, Christian beliefs and behavior are clearly subordinate to other identities and doctrines in the Democrat Party, which has tossed the First Amendment aside so it can punish dissent from the sex first party doctrine. Not actual harm to those who make sexual identity their top priority in life, but simple dissent from the doctrine of "sex first" is being punished by life destroying fines pushed by the Democrats in the states whete they hold power, and in Congress too.
The discrimination by Democrats toward Republicans has, by the choice of Democrats, taken on the de facto character if religious discrimination against every Christian and Jrw who takes their religion seriously. The Democrats' alliance with many Muslims is premised on their common animosity toward Jews and Christians. The Democrat Party is full-on at war with Jews and Christians who preach and live traditional Judeo-Christian ethics of valuing human life and supporting families over the State. It is religious discrimination, powered by a very deep animosity in the hearts of many Democrats, who reject the entire idea that we have rights bestowed on us by God. God is only useful to them if he is a supporter of their policies, the same atyitude that the communist government of China has toward Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists and other religion-based dissenters.
I am an American non-lawyer but I remember that many conservatives, including Barry Goldwater, were opposed to the 1964 Civil Rights Act on the grounds that it infringed on the private property rights of landlords, restaurant and hotel owners (I think under the 5th Amendment) to do business with whoever they pleased. The Civil Rights Act did not have enough support to become a Constitutional Amendment but since then courts have run roughshod over the concept of private property in favor of the "public good." The General Welfare clause in the Preamble and the Interstate Commerce clause have both ripped holes in the Constitution that you could drive a truck (lorry) through.
I wonder if Mohamed Noor's partner is receiving disability payments for the loss of hearing incurred when Noor shot Jasmine Damond with his pistol that was right in front of his partner's face?
You have to love the police arresting CNN reporters while the fires burn in the background, on multiple levels.
I am living in a Liberal Utopian lie. This is what Minnesota has become. Everything is diverse including the police but it didn't stop the riots from happening. I wish we had enough guts to run our politicians out of town but I guarantee you that the police won't abandon them as they did us. It's not fair that I have to chose between having bad cops or rioters who are "feeling the frustrations of 400 years of oppression" boil over. They wouldn't be saying such things if the people who did this were all wearing white robes. Diversity is nothing more than a cover for the mismanagement of a society and reason not to protect the people who live there.
Terrifying. Any rumours whether insurance companies are generally covering the damages? If you can't defend yourself and are well-insured, it might be a good time to gather your valuables and sentimental irreplaceables and take a vacation until things die down. Reminds me too much of hurricane season here on the Atlantic coast.
We don't have much for money and we need to get back to work soon. Our house is old, run down and the newest thing we have is the roof on it we replaced seven years ago so insurance wouldn't be able to get us much at all. My dad says not to worry but I can't help it.
A Minneapolis bookstore, Uncle Hugo's Science and Uncle Edgar's Mystery Bookstore got torched last night. I had been going there for over 38 years.
He made a Facebook announcement. He is wiped out. Insurance does not usually pay for damages from a "civil insurrection". Obviously, a small business can't self-insurance.
Another of my favorite bookstores, Midway Books, in St. Paul escaped the conflagration of the neighboring liquor store, the CVS across the street, and the burned out bar next door. He probably got lucky because, years ago, he put iron bars in front of his windows after being woke up one too many times on a Sunday morning to be told a drunk took a tumble through one of them. I was there just last Saturday to give him some business now that he could open back up.
As I write this, the Minnesota National Guard is taking up positions around the Minnesota State Capitol in response to a "credible threat". Perhaps they could save themselves the trouble and just put a "Black Owned Business" sign on the doors. It seems, following the words of our Governor, we really should only mourn the destruction of minority businesses.
You know the liquor store that you see burning in the picture? That has always been there even with the changes that went around it. According to their site, they were serving people for over 75 years. Not anymore.
Thanks again, Mark. The poem was perfect for our locked down, blocked up North American continent.
Talking of legal challenges, there's a fair argument that the ongoing Australian state border closures are a violation of our federal Constitution. The lefty Premier of Queensland has decided to keep that state closed in perpetuity. In this case a High Court decision won't require any expansion of Federal power - just a black letter interpretation of Constitutional basics and someone with enough guts to petition. Premier Palasczuk (the Mrs Bouquet of Aussie politics) is coming over like a wild colonial redneck from 1889.
Would that be Mrs. Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced "Bouquet," as she constantly reminds one and all)?
Mark,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! A wonderful illuminating episode that made my day. As has been said before, your breadth and depth of of subject coverage is astonishing and superb.
Where are all the Karens tut-tutting the lack of social distancing? They had no problem calling out healthy young people congregating in a chlorinated pool while intermittently disinfecting with alcohol.
I wondered about that aspect of the riots too Brawndo - for the American press it's simply a matter of priorities -ginning up racial hatred vs pushing Covid-19 hysteria and hence the lock down to the point where much of our private sector is virtually ruined along with our capitalist economy. Question answered in this case. The democratic party desperately needs to hold on to the black vote in November so this case is a dream come true. I'm not downplaying the severity of the police conduct in this incident. I'm confident it will be dealt with appropriately.